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Host Mr. Joyner:
We are ready to begin. Ask questions in the questions chat room.
Rick is here. We Welcome You!! to our first live Internet chat.
It is with great pleasure we introduce Rick Joyner.
Host Robert-MIM:
Lila:
Mr. Joyner: Your book greatly impacted me. If those without
humility fell into delusion, and as you indicated in your book
that we all have deception in us, and will have until Christ
returns, how can we know if we are caught up in some form of it.
Host Mr. Joyner:
I think there are several ways that the Scriptures have given us
for recognizing deception. The first is the Scriptures
themselves. I think the better we know the written word, the less
likely we will be to be deceived. Another major way is to judge
fruit. The third way is the Lord said my sheep know my voice.
Knowing the voice of the Lord, the better we know His voice, the
more closely able we are to follow Him and the less likely we are
to be deceived. The fourth would be staying in proper
relationship with the Body of Christ, the Church, and the
shepherds he has provided, and the other ministries we have for
watching over each other.
Host Robert-MIM:
Kym_in_Oz:
q for Rick... Some people here (Adelaide Australia) have had
problems with TFQ due to how some others have made an extreme
view of TFQ... the people with extreme view can be considered
fruitcakes... but it has meant that TFQ has been misunderstood
here. Any Ideas on how to approach these people ?
Host Mr. Joyner:
As Peter wrote that the unstable and untaught will distort even
the Scriptures, and I believe that everything that we say is
distorted by some, is misinterpreted by some, it is viewed from
extreme positions. Some see things through wounds and hurts, some
through doctrinal prejudices that cloud and distort what they see
and hear. We can't help that. I personally do not think that I
have ever said or heard anything said from the pulpit that
someone did not distort or misunderstand. I think that is due to
all the problems of fallen humanity and lack of clear
communication and understanding we have as a result of the fall
and the Tower of Babel. All you can do is preach and write and
speak what you feel and believe is the truth, and just trust the
Lord to eventually lead His people into all truth. I don't think
that negates our responsibility to be as clear and specific as we
can in trying to communicate truth. Sometimes there are
misunderstandings that are the result of our own
miscommunication, so we also have to have an attitude of humility
and be open to the fact that we have misstated things or are even
wrong about some things. But there will always be some who will
distort, even the most clear communications.
Host LaVelle:
jw:
How many FQ are out there and how has the book been received?
Host Mr. Joyner:
I think we are approaching a quarter of a million being
distributed. It is by far our best selling book ever, or at least
headed towards being our best selling book ever. The reception
has been extremely positive, even overwhelming positive, even
among conservative evangelical circles. We are very thankful for
that.
Host Robert-MIM:
CoolBaby:
Rick, has there been any additional revelation to add to the
"Final Quest?"
Host Mr. Joyner:
A little bit. I have had very little time to spend in the place,
in the solitude that is required for me to hear from the Lord on
that level. I am hoping this spring to start going back on my
personal retreats. I know there is much more to be received but I
really don't know when the Lord will reveal more to me. I feel
like it really depends on the amount of solitude and time alone
that I have; that will make a big difference.
Host LaVelle:
LT:
Question: How will the church regain the Ministry and Message of
Jesus Christ. What do we need to turn over the Lord that we
aren't?
Host Mr. Joyner:
I think the way the church will regain the message of Jesus
Christ is returning to Jesus Christ, where He really becomes,
again, the focus of our worship and devotion. We start building
on the only foundation, which is Jesus Christ, instead of just on
doctrines or projects or personalities -- but on the Lord
Himself, then I think the church will again recover her rightful
position with the Lord. I would say that we need to turn over our
whole lives. He doesn't want to just be first in our life; He
wants to be everything in our life. Paul said the love of Christ
controls us. I believe our ultimate calling is to come to the
place where everything we do is controlled by the love of Christ.
Host LaVelle:
Ed:
Mr. Joyner, when is your book on the prophetic gifts, prophecy
and prophetic men... going to be released?
Host Mr. Joyner:
We hope the first of this summer. It is in the editing process
now.
Host Robert-MIM:
NewWine:
Question: I have a real burden for the skeptics. What can we do
besides pray for them and for God to open their eyes?
Host Mr. Joyner:
I think the most important thing we can do for the skeptics is
just believe ourselves and walk in faith ourselves. I think when
they see the fruit, that more than anything else will turn the
heart of the skeptics. Skeptics are almost in need to be
persuaded by arguments, but the love of Christ can melt their
hearts. The fruit of the spirit can touch them and the Holy
Spirit can bring conviction. If we believe more and walk close to
the Lord, it will be contagious.
Host LaVelle:
gdroland:
Do you see the body of Christ coming together in one accord?
Host Mr. Joyner:
I believe before the end of the age, before the Lord returns,
that according to Scripture, the body will be in unity. But I
think maybe our definitions of unity may need to change some. I
think we tend to view unity as having like doctrines, like having
like spiritual emphases. I think the true unity is the unity of
diversity; many different parts are able to fit together and
function together as a whole unit.
Host LaVelle:
Mike:
Question: The Eagles. I know that they introduce themselves as
the "Hidden Prophets" but who are they? Men? Angels? Do
you have any revelation on what these "divinely powerful
weapons" are? True repentance? Forgiveness? Love? Fruit of
the Spirit?
Host Mr. Joyner:
I think the Eagles are definitely people, especially, I felt,
that they represented hidden but deeply experienced men and women
of God who had just spiritually soared in the high places with
the Lord and had grown very close to Him and His nature, but are
still very hidden away. Just like eagles very seldom flock
together, these are found individually and in small groups
around, but they know the Lord well and they are going to be seen
and revealed in due time.
Host Robert-MIM:
Ryan-C:
Is the quarter of a million distribution worldwide or US?
Host Mr. Joyner:
It has gone quite extensively around the world. But we still
think it is just in the seeding stage, so it could be a very
large distributor.
Host Robert-MIM:
Conrad:
When will the quest be continued... ?
Host Mr. Joyner:
I really can't answer that, I just know that much more is coming.
It is not like I can sit around and make it up -- I just have to
wait on the Lord. As soon as I get more, I will get it out.
Host LaVelle:
Ray:
Do you feel that it is going to take extreme persecution of the
Church for us to really come together?
Host Mr. Joyner:
No. I think that would be one way that could help facilitate our
coming together but it is not the best way. Generally the church
does come into a certain unity under persecution, but it is often
a very superficial unity and it is like after the church in
Uganda was persecuted it came into a unity but immediately after
the persecution was lifted, all the divisions surfaced and the
whole church divided again, which shows it was not a true or deep
unity. That is often the case of unity produced by external
persecution rather than an internal revelation of who Jesus is
and our unity through Him. I think the highest and deepest unity
can only come from seeing the glory of the Lord. Like when the 24
elders saw the Lamb, they all cast their crowns at His feet. I
think if we would just see the Lord, we would all take our
individual claims to position and cast them at His feet.
Host LaVelle:
Ray:
The condition of those who died never having the opportunity to
accept Christ or even hear his name is such a common question in
evangelism. Did your experience give you any insight into this?
Host Mr. Joyner:
No. Please ask only easy questions such as the free will of man
versus God's sovereignty!!!!
Host LaVelle:
gdroland:
What wave or move of the Spirit do you see coming next?
Host Mr. Joyner:
I think it is very different in different places. Just as the 7
churches in Revelation all needed a different word from the Lord,
I think He usually is doing very different things in different
places. We need to allow for the liberty of people to experience
the Lord differently in different places.
Host LaVelle:
Trevor:
Question: Do you see the revelation from your book the Harvest
and that of the Final Quest closely linked together painting a
picture for the church to see?
Host Mr. Joyner:
To me they do. I really was not aware of it to the degree that I
am now, when it first came.
Host LaVelle:
NewWine:
Q: What about your vision on the blues & the grays? Do you
believe we're in the civil war right now?
Host Mr. Joyner:
I think it is happening in many places right now. But just as the
battles during our national Civil War were not fought in every
city and town in the nation or even every state, the battles are
going on in many places right now but in many places there is
peace. To answer the question directly, yes I think it is going
on right now -- what I saw is presently beginning to unfold and
take place and maybe even has been for some time.
Host LaVelle:
Joseph:
Do you see any mighty move of the Spirit (revival) coming to
England this year?
Host LaVelle:
Conrad:
Many people here are experiencing the Lord in a very personal,
revelatory way. Is this like your Vision experience only in a
less continuous way?
Host Mr. Joyner:
I really couldn't answer that unless I knew how they were
experiencing the Lord. In Acts 2 it talks about in the last days
the Lord would pour out His Holy Spirit on all flesh and our sons
and daughters would prophesy, young men see visions and old men
dream dreams. All of which speak of revelatory experiences that
we can expect an increasing amount of as we proceed toward the
end of the age. That is, in fact, one of the most basic signs of
the end of the age.
Host LaVelle:
LT:
Question: Judgment Seat of Christ. You asked the Lord to break
you. Fall on rock, rather than rock fall on you. Do you have any
insights on this process. I'm asking for it.
Host Mr. Joyner:
I think that there is always an easier way for us to go through
the changes that we need to go through to become Christ-like. We
can judge ourselves lest we be judged., for instance we can
humble ourselves as the Scriptures exhort us to. Or if we pursue
a life of living by our pride, the Lord will resist us. I
personally choose to, as best as I can, do it the easy way.
Host LaVelle:
Mike:
Q: What does it take to get to the "Galatians Two Twenty
Level?
Host Mr. Joyner:
I think that that is answered very clearly in a number of
Scriptures. For example, in II Peter 1:5-8 it talks about a whole
series of character issues like diligence, faith, moral
excellence, knowledge, self control, perseverance, godliness,
etc., that if these qualities are ours and are increasing, they
render us neither useless nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our
Lord Jesus Christ. We see a number of places where we are
exhorted to grow in the fruit of the Spirit and grow in the
revelation of the Lord. The Scriptures very clearly outline this
process for us.
Host LaVelle:
Joseph:
FQ has had a great impact in our local area and we have had to
import a few hundred copies - and all are gone again! Could you
see this a possibly the beginning of something big in this
country of "Admirals" for the Lord?
Host Mr. Joyner:
I hope that it is contributing to the preparation of the Body of
Christ for her purpose in these times, but I would not presume
that it in itself is a great sign of that. I am very encouraged
by the way it has been received, and the places where it has been
received as far as the spiritual camps and the great diversity of
groups within the Body of Christ which are receiving it has been
a real encouragement.
Host LaVelle:
gdroland:
Do you see worship rising as the warriors climbed the mountain in
FQ?
Host Mr. Joyner:
In my experience in that revelation, there was a long period of
time when it seemed like just fighting the enemy was all we could
do. Once we passed that point, Revelations 2:20, there really was
a much greater revelation of the Lord, a presence of the Lord,
until it culminated in a place of just being captured in the
Lord. I think just as David was both a mighty warrior and a
mighty worshiper -- it is hard to do both at the same time. We
need to be sensitive to the times and seasons. There are times to
fight and there are times to worship.
Host LaVelle:
lazarus:
The Final Quest is a past present and future event isn't it?
Host Mr. Joyner:
I think so.
Host LaVelle:
Trevor:
Questions: how can men who love God, become so blinded, that they
remove the people who push back the boundaries the most. When the
Spirit is giving birth and the church not desiring its offspring.
Do you see this as the beginning of David's Tabernacle coming
forth from the house of Saul? And tension rising as found in the
revelation of the Final Quest!
Host Mr. Joyner:
To answer the first part of that question, I think if we really
did love God we would not be so prone to fight against our
brothers and those who are being obedient to Him. I think
sometimes we claim to do things in His name but we really are
doing things out of the motivation of self preservation, our own
kingdom building and many other things; but we can still very
piously use the name of the Lord and say that we are only doing
things out of love of the Lord and trying to protect His truth.
No one loved the Scriptures more than the Pharisees. No one had a
greater hope in the coming of the Messiah than the Pharisees, yet
they were His greatest persecutors when He came. I think we often
call things the love of the Lord when they are, in fact, the love
of the things of God but sometimes we allow even the things of
God to eclipse our devotion to God Himself, and even make idols
out of them. That will always result in a reactionary spirit that
will persecute those who do not comply with their own
perspectives. As to the second part of the question, I am really
not sure what your definition of "this" is as far as
the beginning of David's Tabernacle. I believe as it is clear in
the book of Amos, the Tabernacle of David will be restored, which
I believe relates to free and open access to the presence of the
Lord and the continual worship of the Lord by His people, just as
in David's Tabernacle they worshipped Him day and night. I do
believe that we are in the time of restoration of what is
metaphorically spoken of as David's Tabernacle.
Host Robert-MIM:
Joseph:
Why can't FQ be published in the UK where it is so DESPERATELY
needed? - copies are like gold dust!
Host Mr. Joyner:
I am sorry but I do not have an answer to that question. If they
request it -- we do have many countries where people are ordering
mass amounts of the book and we would be glad to send as many as
are needed.
Host Robert-MIM:
jw:
Your FQ vision, have others had similar revelations?
Host Mr. Joyner:
I did run into one other person who had written and recorded a
very similar vision, but it was not exactly -- but I felt like it
was the same mountain that I had seen. In some cases, they had
gone through different doors than I did. Somehow this is all a
prophetic experience that I do not fully understand. I have had
many people tell me they have had similar experiences and have
seen similar things.
Host LaVelle:
NewWine:
Q: Will FQ be put on audio tape?
Host Mr. Joyner:
We do hope so.
Host LaVelle:
Zoe:
will we ever see a audio teaching on TFQ
Host Mr. Joyner:
If you will explain how we SEE an audio teaching........
Host LaVelle:
lazarus:
The deaf and dumb man in FQ, there are so many like this, how can
we reach them and love them?
Host Mr. Joyner:
This question is too big for me! I think the Lord knows how to
touch the hearts of all men and if we are just obedient to Him,
He will give us the wisdom and insight into how we can reach
those that He wants us to reach. As far as a blanket answer for
this, I really do not know.
Host Robert-MIM:
Joseph:
If you were going to sum up in one statement the main point or
emphasis of FQ what would it be?
Host Mr. Joyner:
I feel that the main thing it all said to me was the seriousness
of the times, the importance of giving ourselves to the things
that are eternal rather than the things that are temporary, that
judgment really is going to begin with the household of God, a
and that if we would judge ourselves, He would not have to judge
us. If we continue in the sin and dissipation that many of us are
caught up in, we are going to pay a very terrible price. But if
we will give ourselves to knowing the Lord, and to doing all
things for the sake of the Gospel, there will be a day when we
will really be thankful that we gave ourselves to Him that way
and that the greatest words we will ever hear will be, "Well
done, good and faithful servant."
If we could perceive the judgment
seat, the reality of His judgment, we would be far more devoted
today to walking uprightly and obeying Him, seeking to always
know His will and being faithful to do it.
Host LaVelle:
Conrad:
Is the Vineyard split with Toronto and Kansas City somehow part
of your vision in FQ?
Host Mr. Joyner:
I really don't know.
Host Robert-MIM:
Mike:
Q: We have been having many visions in our fellowship with
Eagles. The last one the Eagle showed us weapons under her wings.
Do you feel that the prophetic activity will be heightened this
year?
Host Mr. Joyner:
I feel that it is increasing everywhere. I think this year and
from now on we can expect it to.
Host LaVelle:
lazarus:
Rick, did you enter the realm of hell as Terry said he did?
Host Mr. Joyner:
No.
Host Robert-MIM:
We'd like to thank Marjorie for typing.
Host Robert-MIM:
She is blinking fast on the keyboard
Host LaVelle:
LT:
Question: How can we hit the enemy and not the people their
controlling. Any traps?
Host Mr. Joyner:
We'd better be very good shots!!!! There are many traps. I think
very often just our tendency to war against flesh and blood
instead of understanding the spiritual powers that we are
confronting causes us to hit our brothers instead.
Host LaVelle:
Mechelle:
In FQ Jesus told you that the people on the thrones were asking
that the homeless man be brought to heaven. How much knowledge do
the "cloud of witnesses" have of every day life here?
Host Mr. Joyner:
More than we would ever feel comfortable in knowing. That is one
of the most unexpected but deep realizations that I came to
through this whole experience. They really have earned the right
to witness the lives and times of the last day ministry of the
church, and they are truly witnessing our lives today.
Host Robert-MIM:
Conrad:
How has your experience in FQ visions translate into your daily
life?
Host Mr. Joyner:
I feel that it has brought a greater sense of urgency, a greater
sense of the reality of the great and awesome calling that we
have been given, that the Lord really is faithful to His word but
He also expects us to be faithful to our words. It is a terrible
and tragic trap for us to think that believing the word of God is
enough. We must live His word. We must live what we believe. I
hope that it has translated into basic changes in my own life,
but I see a whole lot more that needs to be done, and I am
honestly a little disturbed that I haven't changed more. But then
again, I also understand that experiences do not always change
us. It is the devotion to obey the Word of God, to obey the truth
that we know, and I really do not look for experiences as the
panacea for all the things that are wrong with us. They can help
to bring a reality and an awakening in our life, but we must go
on to be faithful to that. And, therefore, I do not try to lean
on experiences for changing me the way I need to be changed; but
rather seek the conviction of the Holy Spirit and try to maintain
that devotion to the Scriptures, letting the water of the Word
wash me and change me.
Host LaVelle:
jw:
You asked for this for 25 years, why? and how did you feel about
it after?
Host Mr. Joyner:
In some ways it was a very awesome experience and wonderful
experience, and sometimes I felt like it was too much to take. It
has actually made me hunger for more, not less. I really want to
come to the place where I am as at home in the heavenly places
and in the spiritual realm as I am in the natural, so I am asking
the Lord for more even. My main desire is to see more of the
glory of the Lord. I would love to see His glorious throne the
way John saw it. The judgment seat was awesome and glorious, but
I had a sense that there was a throne that was even higher and
more wonderful, and there was a glory of the Lord that I just
glimpsed. I really do love these types of experiences to the
degree
Host LaVelle:
Joseph:
I was interested to note that you called chapter 4 "the
white throne" when it was the judgment seat of Christ - 2
eschatologically different places? Why is that I can handle them.
I cannot apologize for that. But I feel somehow that all of us
were created to have fellowship with God Who is Spirit, and that
it is right to hunger for the supernatural experiences with the
Lord.
Host Mr. Joyner:
That is an interesting point. I will have to look into it.
Host Robert-MIM:
lazarus:
It would seem that the true Kingdom is totally different from
anything we've ever thought. Will His outpouring be as such in
these later days you think?
Host Mr. Joyner:
I feel that just as many who had such a hope in the Messiah
missed Him when He walked the earth in the flesh because He did
not come in the perceived manner or the way they were expecting,
even though they thought they were basing their perceptions on
what the Scriptures reveal, their interpretations of the
Scriptures were very different from the way that He came. I feel
that the coming of His kingdom may be very different than we have
supposed, even though we are basing these suppositions upon our
interpretation of the Scriptures. I am not convinced that any of
us really understand how things are going to unfold in these
times. I think it is right for us to seek that understanding and
to teach what we believe to be the case, as long as we are humble
and entreatable. For me, my eschatology is getting more and more
pliable, I think. Or I guess I should say, I am becoming much
more open to hearing new and different things about these times,
and that I am not nearly as confident in what I used to think is
going to be the way that things unfolded. I believe much of this
is coming from a deeper understanding of the Scriptures, and not
just experiences. In fact, I do not believe that we should base
our doctrine upon experiences, but only upon the Scriptures.
Experiences are only for the purpose of helping to illuminate the
Scriptures, not to give us new doctrines.
Host LaVelle:
Mechelle:
In FQ you spoke of children ascending the Mt., did you ever see
whole families fighting and climbing together?
Host Mr. Joyner:
Yes.
Host Robert-MIM:
yan-C:
Q: Jesse DuPlantis describes how (in his vision of when the Lord
took him to Heaven) he had to eat the fruit in order to be
sustained in the Lord's presence - did you feel any of this
sustenance when you ate of the Tree of Life?
Host Mr. Joyner:
Definitely. But I had never thought about it in that light
before.
Host LaVelle:
lazarus:
Rick, would you encourage others with like vision to write of
their account given and go public?
Host Mr. Joyner:
I think we each need to be obedient to the Lord.
We are closing this chat and we
thank you all for coming. We thank Mr. Joyner for being our guest
and if you would like to see more of these, please give us your
feedback.
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